What is the “Comp Council”? The Comp Council was formed as a solution to opponent scored and checklist composition. The intent in taking the scoring element out of the hands of players was to alleviate the often frequent lack of objectivity of player scores given to opponents they just lost to. Checklist composition was found by many to merely produce alternative forms of “cheese” – essentially players would game the fixed system (which in and of itself is difficult to formulate accurately for every kind of army) to avoid composition penalties and yet still take offensive armies. The solution? The Tournament Organizers (TO's) of the Northeast Indy GT circuit settled on a system by which select, successful GT goers as well as the TO's themselves, GT veterans all, would score army composition for all the GT lists before the tournament as an objective, independent entity. The scores given would be based on overall power relative to the rest of that GT field. Who is the Comp Council? The Comp Council is currently comprised of ten members, all veterans of the Northeast Indy GT scene, and highly successful GT participants. These include representatives of the majority of various major clubs of the Northeast, as well as the TOs themselves. They are: Aaron Fishkow (Tournament Organizer: The Conflict GT, Jervis Johnsons) Alex Schmidt (Carrol County Gamers) Chris O'Brien (The Lost Legion) Corey Reynolds (Tournament Organizer: The Crossroads GT, club Mercenary) Jarrett Messing (The Warmonger Club) Larry Mottola (The Warmonger Club) Matt York (Tournament Organizer: The Colonial GT, Vermin Lord) Nidal Nasr (The Warmonger Club) Rob Canterman (Page 5) Todd Wiatt (Page 5) Most of these names are instantly recognizable. If you've had the privelege to get to know these fine folk you'd recognize that we've collected a wide range of opinionated individuals with varied gaming philosophies from the length of the Eastern Seaboard. In our opinion this expands our knowledge base and makes the Council stronger. While nobody can agree on every person selected for everything, with the number of people on the Council no individual can typically sway a score more than a fraction of a point. How does the composition scoring work? Lists are submitted on or before a date set by the individual tournament organizer. Any judges participating in the tournament submit their lists early to be processed in the lot when the rest arrive. Late lists are penalized (clearly there's a dependence on the cooperation of all tournament participants). The TO then has the names stripped from every list. They are presented to the council nameless on a spreadsheet and each member gives every list his score. The scores are given on a scale of 0-20, 0 being the most disgusting list possible at the tournament, 20 being pure fluff, with little-to-no mind towards victory. There is no discussion of lists at this point, with the exception of highlighting illegal submissions. Council members can see other members scores, and while this exposes each member to the influence of another it also alerts any member to the possibility he may have missed something in his initial scoring. Scores are rarely identical, but often in the same zone of 1-3 points. Once the lots of scores have been entered (usually a process taking a week or two) judges can feel free to raise any questions about extremely disparate scores (usually scores ranging about 5 or more points apart from each other). If judges agree with any arguments presented they can change their score, or as more often happens, not. At this point the Council is finished with the lists. When all the scores are submitted and finalized, the TO has them reattached to their owners names for the tournament. They are either given as rounded results, or with decimals included, depending on the choice of the TO. In our 0-20 system 10 is the score given to a list of average power for the tournament. Therefore, the goal of every member of the Council is to submit his collective scores such that their final averaage is approximately 10 points. Additionally, the majority of scores are to fall in and around the 10 mark (an approximate range of 7-13). This creates a bell curve by which the majority of scores fall in a middle zone, and more extreme lists are scored appropriately. During the tournament players typically begin paired based on their composition scores, then pair based on an amalgamation of comp and battle, before finally playing purely based on battle. However, all decisions of how the Council's scores are used to dictate pairings and influence overall scores are up to the TO. It should also be noted that there is a certain “abusive factor” to some armies which will lower their score. While these rock/paper/scissors choices are often not the most universally effective, they will simply crush some folks, and tend to make for horrible games. Gunlines are a perfect example. The Council scores these accordingly. Below are examples of actual lists from a spread of scores as scored by the Council from a previous 2250 point GT. The names have been removed from the armies. Apologies in advance for any fluctuation in format, and failures in my cut and paste. These examples are meant to provide a rough guide as to the relationship between tabletop power and scores. Not every list is covered here, but if you've had any tournament experience you should be able to glean something from what follows. I'm putting a few notes in to highlight some of the thought process that went into the scoring, though as each judge has his own opinion I'll be speaking in generalities. It should be noted that were you to take the exact same army to another Council scored tournament, you might not get the exact same score. As I said above, each score is based on the relative field, as you'll see in the first couple of examples where the presence of gnoblars shifted typically high-scoring Dwarfs down a peg. Ultimately, the Council expects most of its scores to fall within a point or two of what a Warhammer-knowledgeable individual would expect (that's within a 10% deviation):
Gnoblars Head Honcho - light armor, Enchanted Shield, Funny Trinket, Honcho Helm Honcho - BSB, Warbanner Honcho - flail Honcho - flail Honcho - flail Honcho - flail Honcho - flail Gnoblar Scraplauncher Gnoblar Scraplauncher 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields 25 x Gnoblar Fighters - full command, light armor, shields Obviously this gnoblar list is a fluffy lark. It scored as it did (and not a perfect 20) purely because there was an even greater lark at the tournament. Hundreds of S/T 2 troops with LD 5, need I say more? Average Score: 15.5 Dwarfs 1 Dwarf Lord @ 258 pts (General; Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield) -Runic Weapon (Master Rune of Flight; Rune of Might) -Runic Armor (Rune of Preservation; Rune of Stone) -Runic Talisman (Master Rune of Challenge) 1 Thane (Battle Standard Bearer) @ 120 pts (Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Battle Standard Bearer) -Runic Standard (Rune of Courage) 1 Runesmith @ 127 pts (Hand Weapon; Gromril Armor; Shield) -Runic Armor (Rune of Stone) -Runic Talisman (Spelleater Rune x1) 10 Quarrellers @ 110 pts 10 Thunderers @ 145 pts 20 Dwarf Warriors @ 195 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer; Shield) 20 Dwarf Warriors @ 195 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer; Shield) 20 Dwarf Warriors @ 195 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer; Shield) 20 Dwarf Warriors @ 195 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer; Shield) 14 Hammerers @ 225 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield) 10 Slayers @ 110 pts 1 Cannon @ 125 pts (Rune of Forging) 1 Grudge Thrower @ 110 pts (Rune of Accuracy; Rune of Burning) 1 Gyrocopter @ 140 pts This list forsook the main pitfalls of Dwarfs, namely the anvil/gunline. A large presence of regular dwarf warriors, and infantry in general, with sprinkling of shooting put this amongst the friendliest armies at the tournament. Average Score: 13.6 Wood Elves Spellweaver – 345 -Level 4, Longbow, 3 Dispel Scroll, Ranu's Heartstone Waywatcher Noble – 144 -Waywatcher, 2nd weapon, Longbow, Hail of Doom Arrow Wardancer Noble – 140 -Wardancer, Blades of Loec Noble – 115 -BSB, Annoyance of Netlings 12 Glade Guard – 144 12 Glade Guard – 144 5 Glade Riders – 129 -Spear, Longbow, Musician 5 Glade Riders – 129 -Spear, Longbow, Musician 19 Eternal Guard – 270 -Full Command 6 Wild Riders – 199 Standard, Warbanner 8 Wardancers – 144 8 Wardancers – 144 Great Eagle – 50 5 Waywatchers – 152 -Champion This player showed a conscious effort to take an atypical Wood Elf list. He avoided all non- elves, including the ubiquitous dryads and treeman. The list has a solid amount of shooting which is normal for Wood Elves, as are harassment/skirmishing elements, but all in all it's a friendly mishmosh, without too much weight in any category. Average Score: 12.9 Bretonnians Lord – Grail Knight, Lance, Warhorse, Grail Shield, Tres Isoulde, Virtue of Knightly Temper - 260 pts Paladin – Grail Knight,, BSB, Warhorse, Sword of Might, Gromril Great Helm - 145 pts Paladin – Grail Knight, Royal Peg, Lance, Enchanted Shield, Virtue of Heroism – 185 pts Damsel – Warhorse and two dispel scrolls – 134 pts Damsel – Warhorse and one dispel scroll – 109 pts 8 Knights of the Realm – Full command, lance, shield, heavy armor – 216 pts 9 Knights of the Realm – Full command, lance, shield, heavy armor – 240 pts 9 Errant Knights – full command, lance, shield, heavy armor – 204 pts 5 Pegasus Knights – Gallant, banner, shield, heavy armor – 295 pts 6 Grail Knights – full command, lance shield, heavy armor, war banner – 283 pts 6 Mounted Yeomen – musician, bows, spears – 97 pts 5 Mounted Yeomen – musician, bows, spears – 82 pts Years ago this build was a lot more significant. It's a very linear army, and that's not so hot. It's also missing any real peasant presence, which nowadays is a hindrance Average Score: 11.4 Tomb Kings High Liche Priest – 335 -Staff of Ravening, Cloak of the Dunes, Dispel Scroll Tomb Prince – 108 -Great Weapon, Light Armor, Shield Liche Priest – 140 -Heiratic Jar Liche Priest – 140 -Dispel Scroll 20 Skeleten Bowmen – 185 -Full Command 20 Skeleten Bowmen – 185 -Full Command 10 Skeletons – 80 -Shields Tomb Swarm – 45 Tomb Scorpion – 85 Tomb Scorpion – 85 20 Tomb Guard – 292 -Standard, Icon of Rakaph 4 Ushabti – 260 Bone Giant – 220 Screaming Skull Catapult - 90 Tomb Kings are still solid, but they are the underdog to many of the latest army books. Pretty typical build, though no carrion are a detriment. Average Score: 10.0 Lizardmen Oldblood (466) -Light Armor, Shield, Revered Blade of Tzunki, Glyph Necklace -Carnosaur Scar Veteran (170) -BSB, Light Armor, Cold One, Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield Skink Priest (115) -Scroll, Scroll Skink Priest (115) -Scroll, Diadem 18x Saurus - HW+S, musician, standard (217) 10x Saurus- Spears (120) 10x Saurus- Mu, Spears (126) 10x Skink Skirmishers (70) 10x Skink Skirmishers (70) 10x Skink Skirmishers (70) 3x Terradons (90) 3x Terradons (90) 5x Cold One Riders w/ Standard, Huanchi's Blessed Totem (220) Stegadon (235) 1x Salamander (75) This is a solid list. Couple of big monsters backed by a good amount of lizard beef, and the requisite skirmishers make it competitive. Average Score: 8.8 Dark Elves Master (80) General, Cold one(20), Shield(2), Sea Dragon Cloak(4), Armor of Eternal Servitude(35), Sword of Might(15) -156 Master (80) BSB(25), Great Weapon(4), Ring Of Hotek (25), Armor of Darkness(25) –159 Sorceress (100) Lvl 2(35) Lifetaker (30) – 165 Assassin(90) Extra hand weapon(6), Hand Bow(10), Manbane (25), Rune of Khaine (25) –156 10 Repeater Crossbowmen with Shields –110 10 Repeater Crossbowmen with Shields –110 5 Dark Riders with Repeater Crossbows –110 15 Dark Elf Warriors full Command and the Banner of Murder (25)-145 5 Harpies –55 12 Black Guard full Command, Banner of Hag Graef (35), Champ has Crimson Death (25) – 251 5 Cold One Knights full Command, Standard of Slaughter (35) – 210 Cold One Chariot – 100 8 Shades with Great weapons – 144 War Hydra – 175 2 Repeater Bolt Throwers - 200 Atypical character choices are what I think helped this list score relatively close to the median. It's got a lot of the no-brainer choices of Dark Elves like a hydra/2 RBTs but it doesn't spam harpies, dark riders, or shades which would really put it OTT. It also avoids the reverse ward and heavy magic. Average Score: 7.9 Wood Elves Treeman Ancient – 375 -Cluster of Radiants, Annoyance of Netlings Spellsinger – 140 -2x Dispel Scroll Spellsinger – 140 -Dispel Scroll, Deepwood Sphere Noble – 130 -BSB, Aysendi's Bane, Hail of Doom Arrow 10 Glade Guard – 120 10 Glade Guard – 120 10 Glade Guard – 120 8 Dryads – 96 8 Dryads – 96 8 Dryads – 96 6 Wild Riders – 174 -Standard, Musician 6 Wild Riders – 174 -Standard, Musician 6 Wild Riders – 199 -Standard, Musician, Warbanner 7 Wardancers – 126 6 Waywatchers - 144 This is a nasty Wood Elf build. Heavy on the shooting and excellent skirmishers, with hitty fast cav as stand off. Wood Elves aren't what they used to be, but this is a very competitive list. Average Score:7.5 Vampire Counts Vampire Lord w/ Level 3, Sword of Might, Cadaverous Cuirass, Helm of Commandment, Book of Arkhan, Dread Knight, Dark Acolyte, Infinite Hatred, Lord of the Dead - 445 Vampire BSB w/ Balefire Spike, Black Periapt, Dispel Scroll, Dread Knight, Lord of the Dead - 215 Vampire w/ Flayed Hauberk, Dispel Scroll, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead - 195 Necromancer w/ 2nd spell, Power Stone, Nightshroud - 110 18 Skeletons w/ Full Command, Banner of Endless Nightmare - 189 17 Skeletons w/ Full Command, Banner of Hellfire - 166 20 Zombies - 80 5 Dire Wolves -40 5 Dire Wolves -40 5 Dire Wolves -40 5 Dire Wolves -40 5 Fell Bats - 100 20 Grave Guard w/ Hand Weapon/Shields, Full Command, War Banner - 295 20 Grave Guard w/ Hand Weapon/Shields, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion - 295 An example of a solid VC list that avoids comp pitfalls like wraiths. A strong magic phase and heavy presence of fast redirection combined with excellent item choices puts this with the more competitive lists in the tournament. Average Score: 6.1 Dark Elves Supreme Sorceress: 345 pts -Level 4, Dispel Scroll, Pendant of Kaleth, Sacraficial Dagger Master: 205 pts -Dark Pegasus, BSB, Ring of Hotek, Sword of Might, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield Master: 330 -Manticore, Crimson Death, Armor of Darkness 5 Harpies - 55 pts 5 Harpies - 55 pts 5 Dark Riders – 117 pts -Repeater Crossbows, Musician 5 Dark Riders – 117 pts -Repeater Crossbows, Musician 15 Crossbowmen – 180 pts -Shields, Standard, Musician 15 Crossbowmen – 180 pts -Shields, Standard, Musician 25 Spearmen – 205 pts -Champion, Standard, Musician, Banner of Cold Blooded 5 Shades – 85 pts -Additional Hand Weapons Chariot – 100 pts Chariot – 100 pts Hydra – 175 pts Dagger Lvl 4 + over 90 xbow shots per turn, the presence of a mobile hotek, reverse ward, and hydra net this list a below average score and place it in the very competitive zone of the tournament. Average Score: 3.3 Daemons of Chaos Keeper of Secrets – 625 Lvl 4, Allure of Slaanesh, Siren Song, Torment Blade Herald of Slaanesh – 215 Lvl 1, Steed of Slaanesh, Many Armed Monstrosity Herald of Slaanesh – BSB 315 Lvl 1, Steed of Slaanesh, Great Icon of Despair, Allure of Slaanesh 10 Daemonettes – 120 10 Daemonettes – 120 10 Daemonettes – 120 5 Furies – 60 5 Seekers of Slaanesh – 169 Siren Standard, Champion 5 Seekers of Slaanesh – 169 Siren Standard, Champion 3 Fiends of Slaanesh - 165 3 Fiends of Slaanesh – 165 A Slaanesh LD Bomb, even without the spam siren songs, is a huge headache for many armies. The Keeper is arguably the best of the GD's, and the rest is your standard mono god Daemon cut and paste. Does it get worse with flamers and flesh hounds? Probably, but this is still gross. Average Score: 1.8 Lizardmen Skink Priest Level 2, War Drums, Talisman of Protection Engine of the Gods Skink Priest Scroll, Diadem Engine of the Gods Skink Chief War Spear, BSB Ancient Stegadon 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 10 Skink Skirmishers 3 Terradons Stegadon Stegadon Stegadon 6 stegadons, while it might not be the be-all end-all of effectiveness, is pretty obnoxious and will just roll over some more normalized builds. 6 terror causers can have an entire army taking a terror check. Therefore this list got to play at the bottom of the barrel. We hope this helps clarify what the Council is and how we operate. We've been endeavouring to improve our efforts with every event, and ultimately our goal is to help make the Northeast Indy GTs amongst the best and most fairly scored in the country. |
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